The recent period can only be seen as one of rapid and substantial churn as UK governments have attempted to widen participation, strengthen the national system of innovation and control the direct public costs of higher education. Very similar issues have dominated the debate in Australia. This paper compares the current position of two higher education systems which have done similar things but in a different order, and in different social, political and economic settings. The paper, in a longer version that is available on the HEPI website, was first presented in HEPI\u27s annual lecture series. The version published by HEPI contains all the tables and figures used in the lecture. In 2003, in the first of the HEPI lectures, Lord Dearing ...